Lol, I can't remember the last time I paid enough attention while reading a Warriors book to catch a detail like that, so good on her for that. As for the question, I have no idea - but I like the idea that Breezepelt is Mudclaw's kit. They have similar personalities and it would explain a lot about Crowfeather's lack of connection with him.

It occurred to me while driving into work - no idea what brought it to mind - that the "We Have To Talk" conversation could have taken place AFTER she had given birth. Why not? - unless there is something specific in teh details. I don't have time to check out timeline information on this.
Maybe Lakey will know. Hellooo, Lakey!

Breezepelt just seems SO like Crowy & Nightcloud - but maybe that could be from being raised by them.

I figured Crowy’s lack of connection could be a combination of how he really felt about Nightcloud & just his natural bitterness about his situation in general.

That could be true - Crowfeather has had a hard life, and having to settle for some random WindClan she-cat just to prove his loyalty... hey, I wouldn't be so happy to see her or my progeny than either, haha.

Breezepelt is a lot like them, yeah, but he's also a lot like Mudclaw. Then again, personalities aren't really governed too much by genetics, so it's probably because he was raised by Crowfeather and Nightcloud.

But what could Leafpool have wanted to talk to Crowfeather about that could have been so important if she had already given birth? Or maybe it was to say that the kits she had just given birth to were his...

They aren't governed by much in these books - except what works for Vicky's story. Just like their coloring - kids are always arguing about the genetics of it all when I don't think Vicky goes by that much even now after all the fussing over it.

That's what I meant - that she had had his kits kits. Though you'd think she would have wanted to (& tried to) tell him before they were born.

Gotta go.

Lol, now that I'm learning genetics in school, all the improbabilities in fur and eye color are starting to bother me XD

I make myself ignore them. I just think of the clans as the rainbow coalition.

I'd think it would be a day or two after Crowfeather and Leafpool parted. Crowfeather would have been guilty and wanted to prove he was loyal. So he chose Nightcloud as a mate and they most likely go Breezekit a few days after his escape.

Leafpelt: What? Breezekit was already born when the conversation took place.

I think Vicky messed up with After Sunset. Leafpool's kits should have already been born - didn't the play take place three moons after she and Crowfeather ran away? A cat's gestation period is only two months or so. There's no way Leafpool could have still been pregnant... unless she *saw* Crowfeather again after Twilight.

If there were any references to her weight in the play (I can't remember), it must have been the post-natal effects on her body.

Losty: check out this thread: http://runningflame1.webs.com/forums.htm?forumID=343526&page=1&topicID=1...
We're actually trying to rationalize everything. O_O

LAKEY TO THE RESCUE *flies in, crashes into wall*

*after being peeled off wall* I myself tried to rationalize this after I saw this thread, much like I try to rationalize every little inconsistency in Warriors.

my first rationalization was that Breezepelt wasn't actually born during this conversation and Crowfeather was only saying it to make it like he'd gotten over Leafpool very quickly (if he'd said "she's pregnant with my kits" it would have appeared quite a bit less manly). and then Leafpool had her kits before Nightcloud but nobody really knew about that - not Leafpool, not Crowfeather, not anyone.
maybe that's part of the reason Leafpool was so quick to think "I don't have anything to say to him after all" - when this was first released the majority of us attributed her sudden about-face to the fact that, knowing Crowfeather had already taken another mate, she didn't have anything to say to him. But maybe there's another layer to it - maybe Leafpool did the math in her head and figured that if he was telling the truth, he'd gotten Nightcloud pregnant before their night together in Twilight, which would mean that his thing with Leafpool was a bout of lust more than actual love, and when she heard this she didn't feel the need to grace him with the knowledge that she was pregnant with his kits, because she knew he wouldn't care about them, just as she'd discovered he'd never cared about her.

Or alternatively, given the three month period between Sunset and this short story, both Leafpool and Nightcloud had already given birth.

... I like the first idea better.

(also I don't buy any of that **** about Breezepelt being Hawkfrost's kit. People in the Warriors fandom come up with theory after theory after theory that they think explains the minutest detail in the series. But the Erins make dead sure never to go back on their word that they give us during the series. Hollyleaf is still referred to as "vansished" or some variant thereof, never dead, presumably so some unwitting fan will ask in the future "but you said Hollyleaf was dead!" to which the Erins will say "no, we never used the word 'dead', did we? ;)" There are very few exceptions to this rule.)

Lakey, I don't think Crowfeather gave birth at all. XD
But your first idea is plausible, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.
Of course, it's possible that Breezepelt is Hawkfrost's, but since there's no evidence for that, and it probably wouldn't serve any purpose in the story, I don't understand why fans would come up with something as crazy as that.

I meant Nightcloud. *goes to fix*

anything's possible in a fiction series. there are all sorts of crazy theories for anything and they all hold equal merit because it's fiction and thus if it's not explicitly shown, anything's possible. You can treat anything as canon. But it kinda goes against the point of reading fiction, so...

is a cheater! Actually, I think that was a mistake. I don't think vicky would be that cruel. But then again... who knows? *shifty eyes*

I think the weight reference is just in Sunset.

Lakey: Wow! I haven’t been to RF’s site in SO long. I’ll have to visit when I get more time. Yeah, I seem to recall that he was always obsessed with the genetic inconsistencies & could never just accept that Vicky just didn’t pay attention to that stuff so arguing about its impossibility was irrelevant. I think she gives very little thought to the real possibilities when deciding cat colors.

But wasn’t he referring to a kit they could see – or introducing her to Breeze or something? It’s too late tonight to go find the story & check. I don’t think Vicky would have written it with all the deeper implications about lust & love & Crowy messing around with 2 cats. I just assume she thinks more in terms of writing for younger kids than that would be for. But then, maybe Crowy hooked up with Nightcloud (because he was going to need to make a life for himself in his clan) & then found himself with the opportunity to go with Leafpool who he really had deep feelings for. Nightcloud could have been preggers but he didn’t know until he returned to the clan. Agh! Clan soap opera! I’m leaning toward that one.

Breezepelt from Hawkfrost? Me neither! I think that’s fanbabble. And a really long stretch.
Re Hollyleaf. That’s what I’ve always based my alive belief on – they never really said dead.

Ivy: Did she say Crowfeather gave birth? Oh, maybe so – I just got here after she fixed it.

no, I know Vicky likely didn't ~intend~ the implications with Crowfeather and love and lust and all that. But that doesn't mean we can't put them there. x3 (Even though that goes against my earlier statement about treating anything as canon. I only treat the theories I like as canon. x3)

according to cat genetics, a cat that looks the same as Tigerstar could never have sprung from Goldenflower and Tigerstar. But, of course, then we'd never have Brambleclaw and all the problems that came with, so I say we're better off for it.

Cmoon: yeah she did, it was a hilarious mental image.

Here's a theory similar to the Hawkfrost one - maybe Nightcloud took another mate before Crowfeather (Mudclaw, maybe?) and conceived Breezepelt, but Crowfeather thinks it's his? This seems probable. I'm not even going to look at the genetics because we know those have no bearing.

I think Vicky just made a mistake...but I guess that's a bit more boring than everything you're all thinking up XP